Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Giffords and MoveOn.org

Tedski over at Rum, Romanism and Rebellion likes to make a big deal about the background of donors even if there is no impropriety surrounding the specific donation.

Looks like Gabrielle is linked to MoveOn.org by a $5,000 donation. Will she repudiate their despicable ad against Petraeus?


Sirocco said...

I seriously doubt she will, nor should she.

Anonymous said...

I read the ad, why is it despicable? Is it despicable because the group dared to question what Petreus has said? Dared to show that what he is arguing has another side to it and the reports on this war are INDEED conflicting?

I fear for the day that we cannot question our leaders...military or not. Especially in a time when that very leadership has stained its credibility.

Furthermore, I denounce anyone who calls those who question this authority unpatriotic...and worse...you use it to perpetrate war.

Liza said...

This controversy will be gone by tomorrow. That issue of the NYT is already lining birdcages and being used to "paper train" puppies who live in apartments.

Anonymous said...

The Gabby protectors and spin miesters are working overtime for their gal.

This will make a great attack ad for Friends of Tim Bee PAC.

Say what you will, it may be lining bird cages now but it will come back to haunt her unless she does the right thing and send back the money (which she won't).

While the fringe left may dig the MoveOn crowd, the regular folk in CD8 will not see it that way.

Contrary to popular belief of some on the left, Tim Bee is going to give Gabby one hell of a run for her money.

The perfect storm that snuck her into office in '06 will not occur in '08. First there will be no Randy Graf to alienate moderate Republicans, President Bush will be irrelevant since he's not going to be in office so Gabby can't beat up on him anymore, the energized Democrat base and the GOP defections will not occur like they did in '06, and Gabby now has one heck of a voting record to tear apart, preventing her from hiding in the fog like she did last year.

With Gabby irritating her base of support, be it her failing to deliver on her Iraq pull out promise, her opposition to impeachment, and her position favoring Border Patrol checkpoints, this will likely encourage a few defections of her own or many will outright stay home on election day.

Then the greatest trump card of all: Hillary Clinton on the ticket for President. Every Republican and conservative independent will be out in droves to stop Hillary Keep in mind there is still a 20,000 vote Republican to Democrat advantage in CD8, and unlike with Graf who dealt with a fractured party, almost all will be united and voting for Tim.

That said it will be a squeaker.

Let the fun begin.

x4mr said...


You're stoned.

Anonymous said...

I am much wordier than X4mer. Bee is crazy to run this race. He is unfortunately so close to his party that he is smoking the same crazy stuff and not seeing reality.

I think it will be a tougher race than if she has no opposition and of all the Republicans that could give her a race, it would be him.

He will still lose. I think you really miss the point about the perfect storm. It will be more perfect this time than ever for Democrats. The very word Republican is held in much lower esteem than that of Democrat, independents are leaning heavily to Democrat, and when it is about national politics and control of the house, she wins...big time.

She also has incumbency advantage...much more money and will have even more by election time...and will undoubtably have a better organized campaign from having run last time. I know Bee is secretly raising funds and getting commitments now, arguably outside of the law, but that is a tougher than actually asking for and getting the real check. Giffords has a million now...she will have twice that or more by election time...honestly. She also has real service to her district, a presence in her district, and is for the most part, liked...not hated. You need out and out hate for an incumbent to go down to defeat. Only 5% of incumbents lose on average...and that is in a year that is normal...not this one.

Finally, Hillary has negatives yes. However, in comparison to who and to what? You assume, a) that she won't be able to win or won't draw out new voters (women especially)...b) while I don't think Hillary will win, you assume some kind of coattails that no longer really exist. Even if Hillary loses the district (and again...to Romney??? Thompson??? Giuilani??? puleassse.), most people split their tickets. They will undoubtably vote Giffords over Bee after making that tough decision about President. Voters more often than not, split their votes. Independents especially do.

Last, all the assumptions about the registration on voting in this district go out the window with the general hatred for and organizational struggles of the Republican party now. They can't raise funds. They are fighting each other. In addition, even with the advantage, independents are a massive part of the district. Democrats will rally around her, Bee will get voters from the GOP, and the independents will lean heavily Democrat...as they are now. Giffords even attracted a decent number of Republicans last time...could have been because of Randy, but the folks I know were at early fundraisers even before anyone knew Graf was the nominee.

Bee faces a massive mountain to climb. He has never ran a real campaign before in his life. If the RNC thinks this is a potenial pick up, I look for them to step in fast and take over. I don't think they will trust locals to run this race after what happened last time.

Anonymous said...

Oh...on the relationship to this story and Giffords. I am with Liza...this is a no go. It will, if at all, only motivate those who are the most committed of Republican voters...who will be voting Bee anyway. It might be a baby step to uniting the party...but the link is so tenuous to her...it can't possibly raise enough ire to matter. If SHE had run the ad...maybe...but she is a helluva lot smarter than that.

Anonymous said...

Hey Roger...you think the ad isn't despicable? Had they said what you said "we disagree with Gen. Petraeus and here's why..." it would have been a different issue...no, they had to call him "betray us", saying the General commanding our troops in combat "betrays" our country. That ad will stick and people will remember. People who don't think the tactic they chose for the ad was unpatriotic are the same kinds of people who want more public funding for "artists" who stuff flags in commodes. They accused the general of execution killings and genocide.

The ad will not offend any liberal voters but associating with the moron.org meatheads will be another thing that will cost deomocrats any crossover republican votes. That's not good for the CD8 incumbent who has received thousands from the moveon brain trust.

What a dumb ad.

Anonymous said...

If its what you say anon and is a dumb ad, as I think it is too, why has it boiled your blood so much? Ya'll act like it was a Presidential candidate that said it or an elected official, all it is is an interest group that opposes the war and sees Petreus as someone who is more interested in waging it than in what so many other people know about this fiasco.

If he, and the GOP, can't handle a an attack like this, then heaven forbid what 2008 is going to look like. I would also concur that you folks are really good at dishing it out and actually impugning a record (Kerry and Cleland to name a few) and not at all good at taking it.

I see this as hubbub...pure and simple...it is grandstanding...to connect something this lame to elected officials via donations is lamer.

If this is all it takes to rile your base, then I question its intelligence and I certainly am ready to watch the GOP go down in flames in 08...in a pyre of their own making.